Build ID: 1999091509 Platform: Windows NT (haven't installed this build on other platforms yet) To reproduce: - Launch apprunner Result: The sidebar takes up the entire left hand side of the window; the toolbars are to the right of it. Expected result: The toolbars should stretch the whole length of the window; the Sidebar should start beneath them. See IE 4/5 for a correct implementation.

The sidebar to the left of the toolbars is the new design given by the UE team.

Oh. OK. Verifying invalid. BTW, did anyone on the UE/UI team take in account what people are used to in Web browsers? This new spec is different than IE 4.0 or 5.0 on Windows, and it's different than IE 4.5 on the Mac OS. Is there any valid reason as to why we're choosing to make it different than the current de facto standard for sidebar-like UI objects? It seems as if this change also makes the sidebar overly prominent in the browser window... have we done any testing with actual users?

Sorry, this is getting too many complaints. The real estate for personal toolbar and location field is too valuable. Re-opening and will assign to german.

This is the design as currently planned. I want this design to get exposed with the new look and feel that will go into the builds shortly. Right now with the older design, it kind of looks not very useful. Later we can always go back and change it if there are true usability problems (it's just three lines of XUL!). But the point is - we already know how the conventional design works, Xul is made for building variations. In the near future BTW you will see more such design changes, where we are gradually trying to bring the design to the new look and feel. And to verify the degree of usefulness it's not enough to expose this netscape-internal or even mozilla-internal users since being mostly developers their usage characteristics represent a small percentage of overall netscape users.

Sounds good, just want to keep this bug open to track. I have been asked several times if there is a bug open on this.

Here are my thoughts 1) The menubar is supposed to have a grippy, so that it can be hidden like the toolbars (to allow users to gain a kiosk like view mode without having to restart the program) - this was my original motivation for suggesting xpmenus. 2) The toolbar bouncing around seems an odd behaviour. Remember some people (like me) dont even look at the toolbar so much as subconsciously move their mouse to the place in the toolbar where they've become accustomed to clicking :) ..all of that said, German is right, its good to be able to prototype and test ideas. I don't *hate* this design.. I just am not fond of its implementation in Navigator. I like its implementation in Messenger far more (even though the chrome has moved, the menubars and toolbars are bundled together, and it doesnt look half bad). I also like the way it gives the sidebar more vertical room, which it sort of needs, at 800x600 at least.

#1 is covered in another bug. I have a fix ready as part of my next sidebar rev.

The bug number for #1 is 14837.

I just checked in a fix

Reopening. This wasn't supposed to be "fixed" yet. Paul opened this bug to track it.

Reassigning to german.

this effort is put on hold until we can see it with the new Netscape look and feel, so we put the toolbar back under the toolbars for while we fix a whole bunch of other css and xul problems.

Now we are in this awkward state. The sidebar is to the left of the toolbars in mailnews, but under the toolbars in the browser. Should I make mailnews consistent with the browser layout?

yes to avoid said awkwardness for the next days mail should be made consistent with the browser, namely the sidebar needs to get tucked under menu and toolbars. Behaviors and look and feel should always consistent for the main app structures. Once we get the new look and feel in we will change it back and see how it looks.

Fixes have all been checked in. Mail and Browser windows have menus and toolbar over the sidebar.

verified in 10/19 builds